Just for Fun in 60 minutes!

Man's_Head-2

This is a hand drawn animation produced using Pencil2D. Its a pastiche on a drawing used within a tutorial video.

I was intrigued by the simple method used to make a flat image look more 3D by adding shadows and highlights. I’ve also been reading a Masters Thesis from a student from Trinity College Dublin on the same topic.

They added the shadow to the image using a Python script, whereas I’m doing the process manually. But the aim is the same in both cases.

The funny thing about uploading this file is the animated .gif is over five times larger than the .mov file which has two sound tracks. This is due to the inefficient way the data is stored in animated gif files.

The movie file stores the first frame in it’s entirely and from then on it stores only the differences between adjacent frames.

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What no trolls, I suppose that stunned silence is better?

My first effort posted on Your Stuff was ripped apart, because I was not observering the etiquette, supposed, of the hand drawn animator! In their view.

BUT several animators making tutorials for Utube, don’t either. They draw a character in a pose, the next requires a leg moved, they make a second copy, using duplicate button, rub out the leg and redraw.

In the work of Disney and Hanna Barbera they wouldn’t do this, they may have traced part of a pose, but each key and tween was a complete drawing in it’s own right. Definitely not part clone, they would have changed other parts of the drawing ti emphase the movement.

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First thanks for using my tutorial as a reference :slightly_smiling_face: I’m amazed to this day how it’s possible that it has gotten that amount of views even though it was no big effort from my part it was just a short for fun video i dropped out there. The wonders of You Tube I guess.

My view on animatilon has changed a bit over the years. when I started I used the copy prev. fram erase the arm leg or whatwver draw it in a different position and so on. I think that is what most animators sticks with to begin with. A lot of the modern tweened animations that exist today use this technique so it would be wrong to dismiss it because it works and it extremely time saving. To be frank if the plot is and dialog is funny and makes you laugh who cares.

When I animate today I always try to do it the Disney way, complete new drawings for each keyframe and then from there bild up the breakdowns and lastly the in-betweens. I can do this because I take my time and since I just animate for fun I feel no pressure delivering completed work in a quick timeframe. The biggest reason I do it is because I admire their old animations, to this day I can’t get the quality of animation in for example Snow White and the year it is made to go together. It’s amazing they pulled it off so early in time with the tools available at that time.

Sure I would like to upload a new video every month but I only have a small amount of hours each week I can use. As long as I feel some progression I will keep on going, a typical problem I noticed with using new drawings and copy nothing is that it’s very hard to keep the character consistent. It’s very obvious in the end when I compare the first frame against the last. usually it’s the size that is off, I think I now better manage the looks of the character but the size I still struggle with.

For a one man show animation job with a set schedule when to be finnished I think I’d choose a mix of those two techiques, a little bit of tweening and mix it up with redrawing the whole character when needed. I have studied the old classic Looney Tunes series from the 50’s 60’s a lot and I see they also mix freely between those techniques. It most likely was a way for them keeping in line with the budget.

To me everything is personal preference, it’s art so no one can tell you how you should do it you just go with the way that feels best and eventually you go another direction later in life and no way is better than the other, the best thing about animating as a hobby is you can decide yourself and you don’t have to dance along any other peoples rules. :grin:

Good job with your animation. looking forward to more. :+1:

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Oh, so now you are frustrated because we keep silent. If you are hostile then of course people would not want to talk to you. Keep being hostile and people would just stay away from you.

And I ripped your previous animation apart? All I did was call it cut-out animation, because that is what it is. You are moving the shapes (that you draw) around. You even admitted that it was based on shadow-puppetry and essentially admitting that it was cut-out animation.

It is not in my view that it was not hand drawn (traditional) animation because, by definition, it is really not. Hand drawn means you draw frames by hand.

I don’t understand why you can’t accept the obvious and consider anyone who pointed that fact out as being a troll or ripping at your stuff. It is what it is. No amount of denial is going to change the fact.

I’m not really sure what Utube tutorial you are talking about, though it sounds to me that you are describing the shift-and-trace technique.

Still, this is not what you have done. Sure there are things you redraw (in stop-motion animation terms, you are replacing stuff/shapes), but overall, you are just moving the shapes around. That is cut out animation.

I even provided you with the South Park video to show that they are also doing the very exact thing that you are doing.

But, nah! Your pride couldn’t take it. Facts be damned.

Just… get down from your high horse.

As for this one. It is actually quite nice, but refrain from saying anything because you would easily take what I say the wrong, and of course the animosity between us. You can’t even help but attack me just because no care to talk about your work.

You can’t stand criticism, but still, you want us to talk? Then lets talk.

The thing that we can call hand drawn animation here is the mouth animation and that single frame head turn. That is it. There rest can’t really be called animation per se.

Still, it is a nice job, but I can’t feel particular charitable when you attacked me so you can get a response.

There, I have talked. Hope you are satisfied now.

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There are some people in life, who think the way they do thinks is the only way, the correct way. They therefore take on a mission to correct the way that other’s use the technique or package, in this case Pencil2D.

Any package or technique can be applied in many ways to achieve excellent results!

I don’t claim to know it all. I’ve looked at other’s work, in the Your Stuff feed. There are examples of exquisite work produced by drawing all frames from scratch. I take my hat off to these people.

The techniques I use are tailored to my skills and experience.

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Man's_Head-4

This is my latest animation project. The aim is show how the image is built up.

The aim is to see how Pencil2D features can be used to achieve the best results.

All the frames are hand drawn on a single layer, plus a background.

The animation also includes a sound layer, but since .mp4 files can’t be uploaded to the Your Stuff page, despite the .gif file being over five larger than the .mp4 file.

Why can’t users upload .mp4 files?

There are people in life who calls a cat a dog. Apparently, they can’t tell the difference.

There are also people in life who calls cut-out animation hand drawn animation. Apparently, they can’t tell the difference.

And seriously, you always straw man what I said.

Yeah! Double down on that straw man. Logical Fallacies for the win…

Okay. Here is the thing. All I did was call your work cut out animation instead of hand drawn. Essentially, you have these shapes and move them around (cut out animation) instead drawing them in every frame (hand drawn animation).

I didn’t even say that cut out animation is wrong or inferior. Cut out animation is an excellent technique.

What all I did was tell you what exactly you really did. You didn’t do hand drawn you do cut-out.

If you like doing cut out animation, excellent! Nothing is wrong with it. What is wrong is you calling cut out animation hand drawn animation. They are two different things.

You, however, for some reason, can’t stand this correction. You demonize me, calling me a troll and ripping your work apart, for making this correction.

Dude, that is the most basic stuff that you can do with almost all drawing applications. This is one way of how people have been doing it since the 1980s (like Photoshop was created in 1988). Are we supposed to be impressed by this demonstration?

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I guess that your one of those people, who can’t accept that everyone doesn’t think like you!

My latest animations are hand drawn, quite a departure from the puppet animation I’ve done for over thirty years professionally.

I’m just having fun! Can’t you just accept the fact. I guess me and you are never going to have the same view if anything.

True. My thinking isn’t irrational. Unlike yours.

So? Are you having fun calling cats dogs?

“Just having fun” doesn’t give you the ability to change the definitions of terms to whatever you want.

Look who is projecting.

You are the one who can’t accept the facts. Be responsible instead of laying your faults on me.

You aren’t going against my view, you are going against the definitions, and I am merely pointing that out.

You can’t just change the definition because of your “view” like you are some god or the word meaning arbiter.

I, on the other hand, bow to the reality that I don’t have the power to dictate the meaning of the words. If I do cut out animation, I call it cut out animation.

Seriously, there is no reasoning with you. Let see who will win, your “view” or the dictionary.

I’m going to ignore you after this. I’m not going to continue wasting my time on someone as delusional as you.

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This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Hi Elecy

The important thing about animation is a sense of humour. Even if your making an instructional animation about fitting an ink cartridge into a printer. I’d add a face to the cartridge and an audible sye from the printer alter the cartridge is fitted.

The humour helps get the message over and is memorable too.

The only way to learn to draw animations is to do it, you’ll learn from your mistakes, build confidence and learn new techniques.

Good luck

Ok first off, I want everyone to take a moment to read what I’m going to say. It won’t be long.

I’ve locked :lock: this thread and the previous thread for now and will delete them after discussion with the moderator team and upon reaching a consensus because we foresee that It will continue getting derailed if we leave it open.

To the OP we suggest to please make a new thread and limit yourself to only post your artwork from now on. If you want to share your world views, theoretical explorations and philosophical inclinations please make use of an appropriate platform and share the link sparsely on your thread instead, this forum is meant to only share GRAPHIC ARTWORK.

I’m really sad to see these personal artwork threads devolved into something like this. I really haven’t had much time to check all the nuances of the forum due to personal issues, so personally speaking as an individual and not in behalf of Pencil2D I sincerely apologize to all the involved parties for being unable to adequately moderate these threads and allowing you all to have a terrible experience in this forum regardless of your POV or participation in this discussion :bowing_man:

The #your-stuff category is a place where people can share ARTWORK made with Pencil2D, and any other work created with alternative software (e.g Flash, CSP, Moho, etc) as long as they comply with the requirement of letting others know which software they used.

Helpful critique is encouraged. Negative criticism is discouraged.

Regarding this thread & similar ones

From an outsider perspective what we could see from both a previous thread as well as this one was:

  1. The OP posted their work to showcase their progress in something they genuinely think was interesting.
  2. The user had certain world views and personal theoretical understanding of animation that is only partially aligned with mainstream or academically approved knowledge, so opinions were being contested.
  3. Afterwards a slew of specific comments aimed to, as far as we can understand, uncaringly enforce the correction of perceived misconceptions started to be delivered on a regular basis.
  4. The comments and arguments derailed into a (mostly) accusatory discussion on the validity of specific arguments related to historical, factual, anecdotal and experiential evidence.

Alright. Let me be very clear then. This communication is meant to be addressed to all users, including those that participated in either thread, who might read this.

If anyone in this forum wants to critique other users work, you are expected to at least ask the artist if they even want your opinion. This is not twitter.

Upon registration there is a certain freedom you are given within the confines of this forum, but if any other user starts being disrespectful towards you (whoever you are), regardless of the validity of their statements they can be moderated as long as they are breaking the Pencil2D’s code of conduct

Contributor is used in a general sense, from code to art to text commentary

As a general “netiquette” rule always ask yourselves deliberately if you should start flinging nitpicking comments at logical arguments instead of focusing on the artwork, before spiraling down on pointing out argumentative fallacies.

Again this goes for everyone. Do. Not. Engage. In. Pointless. Arguments. Even if your comments make sense logically. There are better and more respectful ways to communicate with others you disagree with, while bringing a more positive light and understanding of a topic in any given discussion that was agreed to between both parties.

However I’m not here to teach anyone ethics or internet debate decorum. I’m not your parent either. None of the mods are. We are here to provide a free product & a minimum set of communication services and to regulate them to match our audience requirements, as long as we’re able due to our own personal restrictions as unpaid volunteers.

So if things get heated enough for the code of conduct to get bruised you will get moderated no matter who you are.

This is a warning however, not a threat, to all of you that read this. So please If you don’t like something, ignore it. No need to be vocal about it. It really is that simple.

If someone disagrees with any of you and you’re not in the mood to debate, my most heartfelt recommendation is for any of you to simply stop your current interaction and move on.

:pushpin: :warning: PSA for everyone. You can add other users to an ignore list by visiting your personal profile for this forum. So please resort to that instead if either of you feel there’s a fundamental impossibility to bridge communication between you and the other person you might be having issues with.

Hoiwever If you are being systematically harassed, doxxed or impersonated in this forum, please contact us and we will take appropriate measures depending on the severity of the situation. The least we can do is ban the offender, but we will investigate first these claims. These ain’t a roadshow to try to troll others because you disagree with them. If you unjustly report others, you will be IP banned instead.

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I would like to apologize as well for failing to deal with this thread and the previous thread (for reference: Playing with Pencil2D tools to see what could be achieved) in a more proactive way that was more reflective of our code of conduct and overall environment we aim to promote within the Pencil2D community.

What started as an interaction with nothing particularly unusual, quickly devolved. I was initially hopeful that the individuals involved would be able to come to an agreement, or failing that at least agree to disagree, the conversation did not go that way. That is when @JoseMoreno stepped in to acknowledge both perspectives, provide his own perspective as an individual who has worked professionally the animation industry for a long time, and to most importantly try and wrap up the conversation before it got any further out of hand. I am glad Jose handled this as I would not have been able to provide the same level of insight for the topic of debate, nor would I have handled it with as much tact.

Unfortunately that was not the end of it, and things continued both on that thread and here. I should have stepped in right away to shut down any attempts to revive the fight, but I was again stuck in thinking the discussion was finishing up, only for someone to just escalate the conflict further. Whenever someone stepped over the proverbial line by just a bit, I was of the thinking that a little overstep was not enough for me to step in. But each time I did that, I redrew the line a little farther from the standards for conduct I helped to create. I never stopped to look back and see how much the line had moved over time. Looking back at the posts now, it’s clear to me now that at some point the discussion when from people expressing their views on an art topic, to people attacking other people’s views, and finally to people attacking other people. The first is acceptable, the second can be acceptable but only if it is done in a respectful manner in good faith, and the third is simply unacceptable and a clear violation of our code of conduct.

It is not my intent here to try to assign any blame, rather it is best left to each individual to ask themselves what role they played in this and what they may have been able to do differently (regardless of what everyone else was doing) to have a more civilized discussion that is more becoming of this community.

This is all simply my personal statement on the matter as one of the few moderators responsible for maintaining this forum and does not reflect the position of the Pencil2D team as a whole. We will be discussing this incident further in private channels and we will likely share another post, here or in a separate thread, focusing on where we will go from here. If anything good has come from this incident, it is that it has demonstrated that we still have work to do to provide the most inclusive and welcoming environment possible for our users.