Windows 10 recent updates

I’ve recently had problems with Pencil2D vector drawing tools. Version 0.6.6. It results in lines which have been draw are there, but don’t have colour and it is impossible to draw new ones. It also doesn’t allow shapes to be filled or display existing fills

This definitely is not a Pencil2D problem, but a Windows 10 update one. Inkscape vector drawing tools have exactly the same problems.

@AnimatorElisa Hi :wave: Actually right now the vector tools for Pencil2D are under development and we don’t recommend using them to work. There are too many issues and no one is currently working on them.

Vector tools will resume work soon after the new Bitmap brush engine is added to the software. We’re hoping the bitmap engine will be added before milestone version 0.7

As for Windows 10, I too had to update 2 days ago to version 202H, but I have not had major issues yet. I probably would need to test inkscape to provide more details.

I now think I’ve tied the problem down. Today I’ve used a computer with Windows 7 Pro and yesterday one with Linux. Both of these the vector features worked OK.

But on a Windows 10 Pro computer that’s been updated the vector tools don’t display vectors or fills. The only exception is a coloured outer line around a draw object.

I think the problem relates to the removal of Flash player in the last round of updates. I think the vector features depend on a routine or routines within the Flash player. This is understandable because Pencil2D is a Flash clone.

If I’m right then the vector features will require a complete rewrite, or the writing of the display routines at least.

I’ve now proved that you can create vector images, using the computers which cannot display them correctly. These have Windows 10 Pro as recently updated.

Incidentally these computers can also render them as animated GIF’s or Mp4’s.

So i can now confirmed that it’s the displaying of the XML files that’s causing the problems.

@AnimatorElisa Hi.

I think the vector features depend on a routine or routines within the Flash player. This is understandable because Pencil2D is a Flash clone.

I’m sorry to say this but Pencil2D is not a Flash clone and it doesn’t aim to be one. It does have similar features, but that can be said of other animation software in the market.

I guess in the future we will look into adding something like groups or nested symbols? :thinking: but that’s only wishful thinking. Pencil2D is aimed primarily for traditional / tradigital animators.

I think the problem relates to the removal of Flash player in the last round of updates.

On the other hand flash player has nothing to do with Pencil2D’s functionality, so installing or removing the flash player is irrelevant to the application.

I already mentioned in my previous comment that the vector layer is under development, so i’ll be more direct. The vector layer is currently broken and has been broken for the past 4 years. It is surely going to be fixed, but it will take time.

But on a Windows 10 Pro computer that’s been updated the vector tools don’t display vectors or fills. The only exception is a coloured outer line around a draw object.

I have Windows 10 Pro version 2009/202H where the flash player was removed from the system with update KB4577586 and I can still make vectors and fills.

The thing with vectors in Pencil2D is that ever since the beginning you had to have a closed shape for the fills to work.

Right now unless you select the vector stroke you cannot fill the shape. That’s it. It’s not automatic like in flash or toonboom harmony where you didn’t need to select the shape to fill it.

Also there is an additional problem, since you have to select the outline to fill the shape, the bucket fill tool has a feature that changes the stroke thickness as well, so this will invariably damage whatever you draw.

As a last issue the vector layer no longer accepts drawing with pressure sensitivity like in the past. This is something that has to be recovered.

For more information on the issues that exist in the vector layer please take a look at the ticket tracker for the vector topic:

I’ve now proved that you can create vector images, using the computers which cannot display them correctly. These have Windows 10 Pro as recently updated.

So i can now confirmed that it’s the displaying of the XML files that’s causing the problems.

I’m sorry I understand you’re taking time to test the software, but you’re saying you’ve proven XML is the cause of the problem and I don’t see a proof.

As I’ve shown above you can draw with vectors in Pencil2D 0.6.6 & the nightly builds under Windows 10 Pro 202H and they will render on the Editor. If by any chance you’re using the Pencil tool, know this tool creates invisible lines, but you should still be able to fill them.

XML is incidentally the base of the SVG specification, which is almost the industry standard format for vector files nowadays and it’s only a text file with mark-up tags, it can’t cause problems unless it’s not properly structured.

Additionally if the XML format was the issue then Animate CC and Toonboom Harmony would have the same issues considering The .FLA file is an XML file embedded into a ZIP file, and the .XSTAGE file from harmony is an XML file as well. They just have a different name.

Besides if you were to properly write down the XML tags directly to create a vector drawing, you will get the vector elements rendered in the Pencil2D canvas without issue, it’s the Pencil2D editor that’s faulty specifically for vector drawing.

Thank you for your explanation. I have extensive experience with Flash. The project which Pencil2D was developed from was a true Flash clone, because it stored animations as .swf’s.

Pencil2D can be used using the same workload and techniques. That’s why I thought it was a clone.

@AnimatorElisa I understand. Since we are not the original authors of the software (we took over development only 6 to 8 years ago) It is possible the intent of the original authors was to make a Flash alternative with the Pencil app, since at that time Adobe had bought Flash along with Macromedia, the parent company.

I’ve been using Flash since version 5 so I understand why would you make the comparison considering also that there are so few animation applications that work in a similar way.

Pencil2D is very similar to Pencil, but it’s being taken into a slightly different direction. If it was only a direct Flash clone we would prioritize the vector engine, however we are prioritizing the Raster engine instead.

We hope that the vector workflow will be improved in the future however, but I honestly can’t say it will be re-started soon. Currently there are many improvements being made for the “animation” aspect of the software, and only until the new bitmap engine is replaced the developers will manage to start planning ahead on how to improve (or probably rewrite) the vector engine.

Either way, thank you once more for your comments and discussion ideas :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Edit: I apologize in advance if the tone of my previous reply or any reply sounded rough. Text has difficulty in expressing tone, but if my reply was seen as abrupt or difficult, i’m sorry about that.

Can I please ask you what build number your copy of 20H2 is please?

Hello.

Sure, here’s a screenshot of the information.

image

I’ve personally been having some windows issues with this version (like the windows calculator no longer works), but nothing related to Pencil2D so far.

It looks as if I might need to reinstall windows 10 Pro.

My computer has the same build no. & Features pack.

I’ve found the problem, it’s nothing to do with Pencil2D. It was a corrupted screen driver.

I carried out a complete system check, using the manufacturers hardware & software diagnostic software.

I should have done these checks earlier.

I’m very impressed with the Discord group and the Pencil2D vector tools. I know they’re not complete but, they are impressive. I like the approach of the package using a simple to use interface, easy to understand tools.

I’ll definitely recommend your software to my students.

Thank you for the comments and assistance.

Incidently the problem with Inkscape was that the Windows 10 update corrupted the setup file, setting the opacity of the line and fill to 0.

@AnimatorElisa I’m glad you found the problem. Other Windows 10 users have reported different software and files being corrupted with the most recent update. I got lucky only the calculator was damaged (from what I can see) :sweat_smile:

We will surely continue to support Pencil2D as much as possible so every tool becomes more stable and useful for all users in due time. I’m really hopeful for the day we can see the vector tools become more polished and also allow for interoperability between Pencil2D and other FOSS applications.

Thank you for your continued support and for sharing your discoveries related to Windows 10, it always helps in case someone else has a similar problem.

Just in case you need a quick alternative for vector animation software that’s also free you can take a look at the Pencil2D blog alternative software list:

I can recommend:

  • Enve2D for being the on with most potential
  • Synfig for having the most features related to vector graphics
  • TupiTube for being the simplest

All of them have had recent updates, so they might help you and your students in the future in case Pencil2D has any problem that might prevent anyone from using it.

Thanks for the help provided by the team. It’s difficult trying to solve a problem on one’s own. As a result I’ve learned a lot.

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