Going off pest and using vectors in my animations

I have notes what this says. I realise that a WIP in this case is not a thing you attack yourself or others with, but it is a Work In Progress.

This means that I’m on my own if using these features I have a problem, I.e there is no support.

There is nothing wrong with exploring the use of these features!

But some in the Pencil2D Community, wish that users wouldn’t post such efforts on the Community Discussion.

I do personally enjoy going off pest and will continue to do so.

All myself and others who like to operate ‘off pest’ are asking is, don’t attack us because we’re draw using different techniques and tools, accept what we do as ‘valid for us’.

By all means take an interest, in what we are doing, you may learn new techniques, that might improve your animation and drawing skills.

We are not a threat to you, we are not doing what we do, because we feel it’s better than your methods.

I must emforcise that I learn from examinating the work of others too. I’ve found that inspiration often comes from unexpected directions.

@AnimatorElisa Hi. I don’t understand why you have concluded that you are unwelcome.

I have mentioned this in the past, but you are welcome to post your WORK in this forum. So please, continue using whatever software and whichever technique you want to use.

The screenshot you have shown, portrays quite clearly what is commonly considered in application development as a warning message to inform users of underdeveloped features or workflows.

This message informs every user that the vector tools found currently in Pencil2D are not working as the Pencil2D team expect them to work. Not that they are not meant for your personal use.

Continuing, the highlight that reads “please avoid using it for production” is a direct appeal to professional animation users that expect this software to be on par with industry standard alternatives.

As such with the entirety of the message show in your posted screenshot, the Pencil2D team is implicitly asking that users who have professional requirements coming from other software, lower their expectations and use the software “as is”, with due caution, to avoid losing work, which can lead to frustration and an excited yet irrational state of mind, usually leading to anger.

This way any issues and hiccups they may experience can be rationalized and given context to improve their overall user experience of the software.

While it may not be clear for some users due to a difference in age, profession or cognitive capabilities. It is by no means a way to discriminate said users for utilizing the vector engine or any other tool in Pencil2D.

So what I find strange is that you feel this is a personal attack.

If I may add, I feel that speculating on the Pencil2D team’s feelings, thoughts or intent towards a specific group of users or individuals, based on a piece of technical writing that is only meant to inform what is considered a limitation of an expected workflow in professional animation studio settings. … is simply not nice.

A different point is that these kinds of threads should not be posted under the #your-stuff category. If anything these should be posted on #misc

As such I’ve moved the thread to the appropriate category to better reflect its content to other forum users.

Good day.

I do feel unwelcome, pushed into a area that is effectively hidden from most users, who don’t deliberately go looking for it!

I think there needs to be another type of responce, that doesn’t get hidden away!

If vectors aren’t going to wither on the vine, they need to have more visibility in Pencil2D discussions!

Hidden behind, or rather under the Suggested Reading Lists.

About your previous comments

@AnimatorElisa I’m sorry you feel that way. To my knowledge It is not anyone’s intent in the Pencil2D team, nor mine whatsoever to make you feel attacked. To us you are simply a Pencil2d user. Of course I can’t speak for other users or members of this forum, however I’m really sad that you feel like that :frowning_face:

Additionally while Pencil2D as a software might have many users, this forum specifically is very sparsely frequented by said users.

So if people are not answering your threads, this could be because of the low traffic. It’s also relevant to consider that perhaps it’s because they simply don’t feel the need to reply.

Bear in mind that we, the moderators, as well as the developers are not required to answer every thread and topic either, regardless of their content. We choose to do so when we can in our spare time, but we are volunteering, not paid, when doing this.

I replied to your topic to provide you with a proper response considering that it appeared you are somehow inconvenienced by the Pencil2D team trying to inform users about a technical issue that could compromise their work by using those specific tools.

About the thread & forum topic categorization

On the other hand It seems you understood my comment regarding the category change.

Each category has a theme. #your-stuff category is meant to share animation artwork only. Your thread is more like an essay or perhaps a personal interpretation of a piece of text (the screenshot warning).

The more conceptual the content is, the harder it is for us to categorize such content. It has nothing to do with vectors or you as an individual or as a user.

As far as I know, every category has the same exposure on the front page. And new threads are listed noticeably on each category section.

This is how the front page looks right now, without any intervention from us. It shows the top new threads (which are yours). They are quickly accessible and visible by other users.

About understanding your requirements

Speaking as an individual and not in behalf of the Pencil2D team, I’m having a really hard time understanding why the release notes warning on vector features could cause you distress.

It feels like every time this topic surfaces, one way or another, you somehow feel directly challenged by the notion of how vector tools are not advertised like you wanted them to be. I hope I’m wrong.

On a personal level, I honestly applaud your interest in the software, as well as you inventiveness and resilience while working with Pencil2D vector features. I myself probably wouldn’t be able to do such work with the software.

But I always wonder what is your explicit purpose by doing all of this?

About how Pencil2D came to be maintained and why generalized notices are used

Please understand that we are NOT the creators of Pencil2D, we are moderators and maintainers of the project. There’s a huge difference.

When Pencil2D was left to become abandonware, we basically picked up the project from an uncertain future. At that time it came untested, full of bugs and issues that were very difficult to fix. But we kept at it.

People have complained and insulted us through and through about every broken thing or misunderstanding they can’t decipher.

So to avoid any misunderstanding, in every release we try to provide technical information that portrays the current status of each tool as clearly as we think can be understood by a majority of users.

I don’t know if it’s not obvious, but we simply can’t cater to every person and user of the software for their specific needs, so it’s expected to generalize words and assumptions. We are not machines that can do everything perfectly either.

And thus we only wanted to inform people about current limitations of the software related to their expectations when it comes to vector tools. This was not about you, and it’s never been about you.

About creating your own rebranded version of Pencil2D

If you are seriously inconvenienced by the way we try to present the software, while I can’t really understand the reason, I personally apologize in advance if this has caused you any inconvenience.

If you feel you don’t want to deal with the people that maintain this project, the forum or the related communities anymore I invite you to consider forking Pencil2D’s source code and create your own rebranded version of the software as well as a community dedicated to it.

Open source users do this a lot when there are sensible, but unsurmountable disagreements or misunderstandings between creators, maintainers & contributors.

Forking is a term that refer how you can take a full copy of the files that are required to create this application from scratch.

With those files, you could aim to create your own version of the software to emphasize the vector tools in the way you feel it’s right and also you’d be justified to showcase your own software in the way you want it to be known by others.

For open source software such as Pencil2D you have the right to take the files of Pencil2D and not only rebrand the software, but also improve on it and take it beyond what we as mere maintainers can ever do.

This is perhaps better explained in the GPLv2.0 license.

Here’s the link to Pencil2D’s source code. Which is also free to be downloaded and used for most purposes without restriction except for what the license above states.

Incidentally to this date there are about 235 forks of Pencil2D, so surely someone already tried to create a different animation software using Pencil2D source code as a base.

Overall, I really hope you can fulfill whatever interest you have with this software and I wish you the best in making a better version of the software that really makes vector tools shine and go beyond the current brand of the software.

Take care and have a wonderful weekend.

I’m not inconvenienced by the way Pencil2D is presented. Quite the opposite, I like what the Pencil2D Team does.

All I was saying in the post, is that occasionally, I like to go off pest. I accept that if I have problem, off pest, then I’m on my own.

I was taught at art school, to experiment with the tools and materials, to see what could be achieved. This is all I’m doing.